Post by Balgin on Mar 15, 2020 13:14:46 GMT
Maybe I've been looking at this wrong.
Generally, when viewing troops, I notice they have a high damage capacity compared to their larger versions (for example a troop might get 12 attacks while the regiment only gets 15). On paper troops do seem to dish out a large amount of damage. However they also seriously lack staying power. One good solid hit and they're gone. Two if you're lucky.
Cthulu keeps saying that troops should be viewed as disposable roadblocks. Things to prevent your larger units from receiving the charge. Generally I find troops to be too expensive to think of as disposable. They simply cost too much. Unfortunately whenever I've attempted to do this the disposable troop ends up staying on the table and being more of a hindrance to me than my opponent. Or at least that's the way it feels to me. I'm sure my opponent would rather be hacking away at a more significant target but generally, either a sacrificial unit ends up getting wiped out immediately (at which point it feels like a waste of points because they're basically like those "we couldn't afford to bring the elephants" guys in Game of Thrones who did absolutely nothing except turn up really late then get killed) or it is surprisingly durable but doesn't do much damage leaving the heavy hitters stuck behind while it spends 3 turns getting slowly moshed. The main problem here is the one sided nature of combat in Kings of War. If your unit gets wiped out in close combat without doing any sort of damage at all it feels rather pathetic and wasteful. After all you just lost a unit and your enemy lost nothing. They'll probably even seem to be in a better position than before the fight as they've broken your lines and they've now got more than you on the table. With shooting it's more reasonable as they were less likely to be able to fight back.
This is where my new thoughts on berserkers come in. Now this particularly applies to the dwarven berserkers (mostly because I've just had 20 turn up in the post but I had the idea a few days before they arrived). Berserkers do hit disproportionately hard for their unit size and they tend to be unavailable in larger unit sizes (possibly because of their hard hitting nature). The various berserker units do behave slightly differently (wild charge, special stuff on counter charges, vicious etc). In some ways this even applies to the Defence 3 Basilean Nuns but these thoughts mostly apply to the dwarven berserkers I knew I would be receiving.
Initially I was thinking of beserker regiments. When I played against Cthulu recently I was able to wipe out a regiment of berserkers in a single turn without having to try too hard but it was a close thing. Give them a few things to help keep them on the table (such as an inspiring standard bearer or the staying stone etc) and they might be able to stick around for a few turns and deal some serious damage. Given the historical role of berserkers being used to smash up poorly trained/low morale foes, and, in Kings of War, this could cause them to deal some serious damage and, perhaps, turn the tide of battle. Maybe even roll up a flank. In my experience they haven't proved to be quite that good yet but the potential is always there.
The potential is what's important here. While they don't usually have a lot of crushing strength they do have plenty of attacks (basically the goblin method of throwing lots of dice at a problem and hoping it goes away). This makes them a high threat unit (especially if they have some capacity for Wild Charge). Typically I've been concerned about keeping the berserkers alive to deliver them to the correct place. After all, it's not much fun to have them all get shot off the table before they get to do anything. But by viewing them as a high threat unit, and presenting them as such, you're forcing the opponent to deal with them. High threat equals high priority after all.
If you're going to throw out a high threat unit to draw the enemy attention then why waste points on a regiment when you could afford a troop instead? Especially troops of besrerkers who are fearless with a high damage output. I suppose we just put them out there expecting them to be crushed and then, if they get to fight back a bit and soften up some enemies for our more serious units then all the better. I think this needs some field testing to see how it plays out but feel free to let me know what you think.
Generally, when viewing troops, I notice they have a high damage capacity compared to their larger versions (for example a troop might get 12 attacks while the regiment only gets 15). On paper troops do seem to dish out a large amount of damage. However they also seriously lack staying power. One good solid hit and they're gone. Two if you're lucky.
Cthulu keeps saying that troops should be viewed as disposable roadblocks. Things to prevent your larger units from receiving the charge. Generally I find troops to be too expensive to think of as disposable. They simply cost too much. Unfortunately whenever I've attempted to do this the disposable troop ends up staying on the table and being more of a hindrance to me than my opponent. Or at least that's the way it feels to me. I'm sure my opponent would rather be hacking away at a more significant target but generally, either a sacrificial unit ends up getting wiped out immediately (at which point it feels like a waste of points because they're basically like those "we couldn't afford to bring the elephants" guys in Game of Thrones who did absolutely nothing except turn up really late then get killed) or it is surprisingly durable but doesn't do much damage leaving the heavy hitters stuck behind while it spends 3 turns getting slowly moshed. The main problem here is the one sided nature of combat in Kings of War. If your unit gets wiped out in close combat without doing any sort of damage at all it feels rather pathetic and wasteful. After all you just lost a unit and your enemy lost nothing. They'll probably even seem to be in a better position than before the fight as they've broken your lines and they've now got more than you on the table. With shooting it's more reasonable as they were less likely to be able to fight back.
This is where my new thoughts on berserkers come in. Now this particularly applies to the dwarven berserkers (mostly because I've just had 20 turn up in the post but I had the idea a few days before they arrived). Berserkers do hit disproportionately hard for their unit size and they tend to be unavailable in larger unit sizes (possibly because of their hard hitting nature). The various berserker units do behave slightly differently (wild charge, special stuff on counter charges, vicious etc). In some ways this even applies to the Defence 3 Basilean Nuns but these thoughts mostly apply to the dwarven berserkers I knew I would be receiving.
Initially I was thinking of beserker regiments. When I played against Cthulu recently I was able to wipe out a regiment of berserkers in a single turn without having to try too hard but it was a close thing. Give them a few things to help keep them on the table (such as an inspiring standard bearer or the staying stone etc) and they might be able to stick around for a few turns and deal some serious damage. Given the historical role of berserkers being used to smash up poorly trained/low morale foes, and, in Kings of War, this could cause them to deal some serious damage and, perhaps, turn the tide of battle. Maybe even roll up a flank. In my experience they haven't proved to be quite that good yet but the potential is always there.
The potential is what's important here. While they don't usually have a lot of crushing strength they do have plenty of attacks (basically the goblin method of throwing lots of dice at a problem and hoping it goes away). This makes them a high threat unit (especially if they have some capacity for Wild Charge). Typically I've been concerned about keeping the berserkers alive to deliver them to the correct place. After all, it's not much fun to have them all get shot off the table before they get to do anything. But by viewing them as a high threat unit, and presenting them as such, you're forcing the opponent to deal with them. High threat equals high priority after all.
If you're going to throw out a high threat unit to draw the enemy attention then why waste points on a regiment when you could afford a troop instead? Especially troops of besrerkers who are fearless with a high damage output. I suppose we just put them out there expecting them to be crushed and then, if they get to fight back a bit and soften up some enemies for our more serious units then all the better. I think this needs some field testing to see how it plays out but feel free to let me know what you think.
