Post by Nemesis on Mar 21, 2020 19:26:20 GMT
This is what i am using for colour ref,
only because Warlord decided to included the figures in teh starter set , so ihave so many Hanoverians
Hanover 1815.
Concerning the uniforms of field and landwehr battalions
by Friedrich Herrmann.
(In addition to picture fig. 4/1959 (in booklet 162)
The topic of the Hanoverian uniforms in the campaigns of 1813-15, which in recent years also in our magazine repeated publications were dedicated, is detailed by a set of work, but still under no circumstances exhaustively treated. There are still a large number of questions remaining open, to clarify in particular the following remarks contribute.
Some time ago I received from Mr. Carman, Assistant Director to the Imperial War Museum in London, the copy of an unpublished manuscript of the British Captain Siborne, who in the years between 1830 and 1840 corresponded with participants of the campaign of 1815 for the publication in 1844 in London of the well known work "A History of the War in France and Belgium". Also for the aforementioned manuscript, which contains data concerning the uniforms of the Hanoverian infantry at present the battle of Waterloo, statements of Hanoverian campaign participants are the basis.
In this respect there is a list, in which the main uniform characteristics are recorded for the campaign of 1815 of all of the infantry troops taking part of the Hanoverian army, in however roughly schematic form. If one considers this list, which is shown below in translation, with a critical oversight, thus the following:
1. On the whole these results correspond with the evidence, as far as they concern troop units, whose uniform admittedly was, in the past partially researched.
2. Significant deviations arise only for:
a) Field Battalion Grubenhagen. According to all existing documents the Battalion did not wear a red uniform with green facings, but a dark green Rifle uniform with black facings.
b) (Field)Jägerkorps. Here so far only a dark green garrison cap with light green band was known, not however the identified conical shako well known as headdress. In connection with this, the article "An unknown Hanoverian headgear from the time of the War of Liberation" by Dr. Titschack (Zeitschr. f. Hkde. NR. 139. November. 1954, S. 99 101) results due to this indication in the case of Siborne interesting new aspects, which will be described in a later article.
c) Landwehr Battalion Osterode. All sources evaluated so far show green, not the indicated blue facings.
Certainly the list in the Siborne manuscript is very schematic and did not consider the variants and the differences, certainly existing within the battalions, between the soldier's and officer's uniforms. It is possible that the colour of leather accoutrements and trousers was not uniform. The reliability of the Siborne manuscript, upon which I am not able to pass a binding judgement, presupposes, as Siborne admits, that only the predominantly represented samples of its list were worn and that others, beside this were also worn, to us however become models which are not considered. That could possibly explain the arisen contradictions.
The text of the manuscript now follows below:
Uniforms of the Hanoverian Troops at the Battle of Waterloo
on 18 June 1815
Brigade & Battalion/Jacket/Facing/Trouser/Leather/Shako type
2 Division, 3 Brigade. Col. Halkett
Lw. Bn. Osnabrück/red/Dark blue/Grey/White/Conical¹
“ “ Quakenbrück/red/Dark blue/Grey/Black/Casket²
“ “ Salzgitter/red/Dark blue/Grey/White/Conical
“ “ Bremervörde/red/Dark blue/Grey/White/Conical
3 Division, 1 Brigade. Maj-Gen. Graf Kielmannsegge
Fd. Bn. Luneburg/green/Black/Green/Black/Casket
“ “ Hrz. v. York/red/Dark blue/Grey/White/Casket
“ “ Grubenhagen/red/Dark green/Grey/Black/Conical
“ “ Verden/red/Light Green/Grey/White/Casket
“ “ Bremen/red/Black/Dark blue/Black/Casket
Jagerkorps/green/Light Green/Grey/Black/Conical
5. Division, 5 Brigade. Maj-Gen.³ v. Vincke
Lw. Bn. Hameln/red/Dark blue/Grey/White/Conical
“ “ Giffhorn (sic)/red/Dark blue/Grey/White/Conical
“ “ Hildesheim/red/Light Yellow/Grey/White/Casket
“ “ Peine/red/Light Yellow/Grey/White/Casket
Reserve
4. Brigade. Col. Best
Lw. Bn. Lüneburg/red/Dark blue/Grey/White/Conical
“ “ Osterode/red/Dark blue/Grey/White/Conical
“ “ Verden/red/Dark blue/Grey/White/Conical
“ “ Münden/red/Dark blue/Grey/White/Conical
¹) In the original text "pointed".
²) In the original text "Portuguese". By this is meant that described as the "Waterloo model of cylinder shape, high front section and eyeshade, in the German linguistic usage known as a Casket.
³) With the indication of rank of Vincke a mistake is usually present, Vinke was still a Colonel to 18.6.1815.
There are minor deviations from that to which we know so far concerning what Siborne has stated in respect of the shako type of the Bremen Battalion and the trouser colour of the Lüneberg Battalion. Remarkably, but quite possibly, there is the indication of Caskets, for three of the landwehr battalions. According to the regulations intended for the soldiers of the landwehr (to which the Siborne manuscript certainly refers) only conical shakos were specified.
So far we only know of the original jacket of the Assistant Surgeon Borntraeger (4) with the light yellow facings of the Landwehr Battalion Hildesheim as confirmed by Siborne. Also from this the Landwehr Battalion Pains wore light yellow facings.
In the possession of the Local History Museum of Hanover is a miniature portrait of a Hanoverian officer around 1815, which shows a yellow collar, and in accordance with Sibome could be assigned to either Landwehr Battalion Hildesheim or Peine. This Portrait was shown as Fig.1 on the drawing (supplement 4/1959). The uniform represented here is completely of an English character. The pair of epaulets with heavy braid points to a staff officer.(5) The braid outgoing from the button of the collar is of the collar colour. The edge appearing as the lining of the chest part of the jacket is yellow and corresponds reliably to the facing over buttoned here. The basic colour of the jacket is red, buttons and epaulets gold.
That in Fig. 2 shows a jacket already described by Mr. F. Schirmer in his work on the Hanoverian Army “Nec Aspera Terrent” where on Page 44 of Volume II it is mentioned briefly. The item of uniform is in the Fatherland Museum in Celle and is at present in the famous Waterloo showcase. The designation reads: “Feldbatallion Bremen Verden / This uniform was worn in the Battle of Waterloo / Rustmeisters Dante”.
The jacket is of red cloth, collar and cuffs are similarly of black. The lace (5 pairs on both sides of the chest and two pairs on each of the basic colour coat tails) are of gold coloured metallic lace (not sure of what!). The brass buttons are moderately strongly curved and show under a crown the Coat of Arms badges of Bremen and Verden, i.e. crossed key and a cross. The lining is of white linen, turnbacks of white linen with black edging. The arrangement of the lace and buttons is shown by the Figures 2a and 2d, details of the button in Figure 2b. On the cuffs are four buttons each. The wings are of black cloth, black wool fringes covered with a chain of thin brass rings.
As previously mentioned, the wearer of this jacket is identified as a "Rustmeister". The Rustmeister (weapon master [Armourer Sergeant]) ranked in the Hanoverian Army at that time in junior staff behind the Sergeant Major. This position accounts for the mixture of elements of officer and soldier's uniform, i.e. the velvet badges and metallic lace on the one hand and the single breasted jacket and the arrangement of the lace on the other hand. Also the very modest decoration of the wings indicates the intermediate position of the wearer.
The jacket was allegedly worn at the battle of Waterloo, at which time, this battalion did not have any more the designation "Light or Field Battalion Bremen Verden", but "Field Battalion Bremen". The insignia on the buttons with the Coat of Arms badges of the districts of Bremen and Verden (key and cross) indicates that the item of uniform dates from before the beginning of 1815 when the re-naming took place, which should exclude the further use of the jacket in unchanged condition beyond this time. Certainly one had to do more important things than to change the buttons to amend the change of the unit designation.
4) See article of the author "Contemporary sources of the historical uniforms of Hannoverian Army surgeons 1815" (Zeitschr. f. Hkde. NR. 129. S. 24/25.).
5) This is relevant to the rank list of officers of the Hanoverian Army by Sichart, as at 18. 6. 1815, Lt Col. v Rheden of Bn. Hildesheim and Lt Col. Count Westphalen of Bn. Peine. Majors Ludewieg and Lueder were attached from the KGL, so it is questionable whether they did not continue to wear the Legion's uniform.
So far three different uniforms were well known for the light battalion Bremen Verden and/or field battalion Bremen for the years 1813 15, namely:
a) red with blue facings,
b) red with black facings,
c) green with black facings.
So far it has not been possible to succeed in clarifying which of these uniforms were worn by which sub units of the Bremen Battalion in the campaign of 1815. The information in the Siborne manuscript shows the fact that the red uniform with black facings was worn by most of the battalion. Also the jacket of Dante, assuming the correctness of the allocation “worn at Waterloo” suggests the same interpretation. The dark green rifle clothing was possibly used by the sharpshooters of the battalion.
Fig. 3 is my drawing taken in the Fatherland Museum Celle, showing the jacket worn by sharpshooter officer First Lieutenant Hurtzig of Landwehr Battalion Verden in 1815. A detailed description of this piece of uniform is in Mr. Schirmer’s article "The Landwehr in the context of the Army of the Kingdom of Hanover (1814 1820)” 6 as the illustration shows. The colouring is inferred from this description. Supplementing the following details referred to:
1. The sharpshooter officers of this Landwehr Battalion did not wear, as was usual in the British army including the KGL, wings, but the simple epaulets of the officers of the centre companies.
2. Very unusual for a short infantry officer jacket of English model of this time is the double sided lapels.
Fig. 4 shows the representation of a complete original shako, at present in the military history achives of the Local History Museum in Hanover, that is attributed to the "Landwehr Battalion Osterode 1815".
The headdress is of rough black felt, the outside trimming at the lower edge from black linen tape, the narrow eye shade from black leather, cords and tassels of green cord, the fittings of brass, crown and king's monogram are raised engravings. The outer edge of the teethed cockade is formed with a black leather shield, into which radiating strips are pressed. A device for fitting a plume is not identified.
Any reinforcement for the headdress and screen is missing, so that, notwithstanding the brass plate, this headdress would without difficulties fold up flat.
The frequently made observation is confirmed that soldier's uniform items of this time were made roughly and cheaply in the design.
Remarkable and deviating from most representations of shakos of this English light infantry type is the low height of this example. The measurements are in detail: Height 20 cm, upper diameter 15 cm, lower diameter 18 cm, height of brass plate 13.5 cm, diameter of the cockade 5.9 cm.
6) Zeitschr. f. Hkde. Nr. 153, April/June 1957, S. 43.
Hope this is of interest,
Rod
only because Warlord decided to included the figures in teh starter set , so ihave so many Hanoverians
Hanover 1815.
Concerning the uniforms of field and landwehr battalions
by Friedrich Herrmann.
(In addition to picture fig. 4/1959 (in booklet 162)
The topic of the Hanoverian uniforms in the campaigns of 1813-15, which in recent years also in our magazine repeated publications were dedicated, is detailed by a set of work, but still under no circumstances exhaustively treated. There are still a large number of questions remaining open, to clarify in particular the following remarks contribute.
Some time ago I received from Mr. Carman, Assistant Director to the Imperial War Museum in London, the copy of an unpublished manuscript of the British Captain Siborne, who in the years between 1830 and 1840 corresponded with participants of the campaign of 1815 for the publication in 1844 in London of the well known work "A History of the War in France and Belgium". Also for the aforementioned manuscript, which contains data concerning the uniforms of the Hanoverian infantry at present the battle of Waterloo, statements of Hanoverian campaign participants are the basis.
In this respect there is a list, in which the main uniform characteristics are recorded for the campaign of 1815 of all of the infantry troops taking part of the Hanoverian army, in however roughly schematic form. If one considers this list, which is shown below in translation, with a critical oversight, thus the following:
1. On the whole these results correspond with the evidence, as far as they concern troop units, whose uniform admittedly was, in the past partially researched.
2. Significant deviations arise only for:
a) Field Battalion Grubenhagen. According to all existing documents the Battalion did not wear a red uniform with green facings, but a dark green Rifle uniform with black facings.
b) (Field)Jägerkorps. Here so far only a dark green garrison cap with light green band was known, not however the identified conical shako well known as headdress. In connection with this, the article "An unknown Hanoverian headgear from the time of the War of Liberation" by Dr. Titschack (Zeitschr. f. Hkde. NR. 139. November. 1954, S. 99 101) results due to this indication in the case of Siborne interesting new aspects, which will be described in a later article.
c) Landwehr Battalion Osterode. All sources evaluated so far show green, not the indicated blue facings.
Certainly the list in the Siborne manuscript is very schematic and did not consider the variants and the differences, certainly existing within the battalions, between the soldier's and officer's uniforms. It is possible that the colour of leather accoutrements and trousers was not uniform. The reliability of the Siborne manuscript, upon which I am not able to pass a binding judgement, presupposes, as Siborne admits, that only the predominantly represented samples of its list were worn and that others, beside this were also worn, to us however become models which are not considered. That could possibly explain the arisen contradictions.
The text of the manuscript now follows below:
Uniforms of the Hanoverian Troops at the Battle of Waterloo
on 18 June 1815
Brigade & Battalion/Jacket/Facing/Trouser/Leather/Shako type
2 Division, 3 Brigade. Col. Halkett
Lw. Bn. Osnabrück/red/Dark blue/Grey/White/Conical¹
“ “ Quakenbrück/red/Dark blue/Grey/Black/Casket²
“ “ Salzgitter/red/Dark blue/Grey/White/Conical
“ “ Bremervörde/red/Dark blue/Grey/White/Conical
3 Division, 1 Brigade. Maj-Gen. Graf Kielmannsegge
Fd. Bn. Luneburg/green/Black/Green/Black/Casket
“ “ Hrz. v. York/red/Dark blue/Grey/White/Casket
“ “ Grubenhagen/red/Dark green/Grey/Black/Conical
“ “ Verden/red/Light Green/Grey/White/Casket
“ “ Bremen/red/Black/Dark blue/Black/Casket
Jagerkorps/green/Light Green/Grey/Black/Conical
5. Division, 5 Brigade. Maj-Gen.³ v. Vincke
Lw. Bn. Hameln/red/Dark blue/Grey/White/Conical
“ “ Giffhorn (sic)/red/Dark blue/Grey/White/Conical
“ “ Hildesheim/red/Light Yellow/Grey/White/Casket
“ “ Peine/red/Light Yellow/Grey/White/Casket
Reserve
4. Brigade. Col. Best
Lw. Bn. Lüneburg/red/Dark blue/Grey/White/Conical
“ “ Osterode/red/Dark blue/Grey/White/Conical
“ “ Verden/red/Dark blue/Grey/White/Conical
“ “ Münden/red/Dark blue/Grey/White/Conical
¹) In the original text "pointed".
²) In the original text "Portuguese". By this is meant that described as the "Waterloo model of cylinder shape, high front section and eyeshade, in the German linguistic usage known as a Casket.
³) With the indication of rank of Vincke a mistake is usually present, Vinke was still a Colonel to 18.6.1815.
There are minor deviations from that to which we know so far concerning what Siborne has stated in respect of the shako type of the Bremen Battalion and the trouser colour of the Lüneberg Battalion. Remarkably, but quite possibly, there is the indication of Caskets, for three of the landwehr battalions. According to the regulations intended for the soldiers of the landwehr (to which the Siborne manuscript certainly refers) only conical shakos were specified.
So far we only know of the original jacket of the Assistant Surgeon Borntraeger (4) with the light yellow facings of the Landwehr Battalion Hildesheim as confirmed by Siborne. Also from this the Landwehr Battalion Pains wore light yellow facings.
In the possession of the Local History Museum of Hanover is a miniature portrait of a Hanoverian officer around 1815, which shows a yellow collar, and in accordance with Sibome could be assigned to either Landwehr Battalion Hildesheim or Peine. This Portrait was shown as Fig.1 on the drawing (supplement 4/1959). The uniform represented here is completely of an English character. The pair of epaulets with heavy braid points to a staff officer.(5) The braid outgoing from the button of the collar is of the collar colour. The edge appearing as the lining of the chest part of the jacket is yellow and corresponds reliably to the facing over buttoned here. The basic colour of the jacket is red, buttons and epaulets gold.
That in Fig. 2 shows a jacket already described by Mr. F. Schirmer in his work on the Hanoverian Army “Nec Aspera Terrent” where on Page 44 of Volume II it is mentioned briefly. The item of uniform is in the Fatherland Museum in Celle and is at present in the famous Waterloo showcase. The designation reads: “Feldbatallion Bremen Verden / This uniform was worn in the Battle of Waterloo / Rustmeisters Dante”.
The jacket is of red cloth, collar and cuffs are similarly of black. The lace (5 pairs on both sides of the chest and two pairs on each of the basic colour coat tails) are of gold coloured metallic lace (not sure of what!). The brass buttons are moderately strongly curved and show under a crown the Coat of Arms badges of Bremen and Verden, i.e. crossed key and a cross. The lining is of white linen, turnbacks of white linen with black edging. The arrangement of the lace and buttons is shown by the Figures 2a and 2d, details of the button in Figure 2b. On the cuffs are four buttons each. The wings are of black cloth, black wool fringes covered with a chain of thin brass rings.
As previously mentioned, the wearer of this jacket is identified as a "Rustmeister". The Rustmeister (weapon master [Armourer Sergeant]) ranked in the Hanoverian Army at that time in junior staff behind the Sergeant Major. This position accounts for the mixture of elements of officer and soldier's uniform, i.e. the velvet badges and metallic lace on the one hand and the single breasted jacket and the arrangement of the lace on the other hand. Also the very modest decoration of the wings indicates the intermediate position of the wearer.
The jacket was allegedly worn at the battle of Waterloo, at which time, this battalion did not have any more the designation "Light or Field Battalion Bremen Verden", but "Field Battalion Bremen". The insignia on the buttons with the Coat of Arms badges of the districts of Bremen and Verden (key and cross) indicates that the item of uniform dates from before the beginning of 1815 when the re-naming took place, which should exclude the further use of the jacket in unchanged condition beyond this time. Certainly one had to do more important things than to change the buttons to amend the change of the unit designation.
4) See article of the author "Contemporary sources of the historical uniforms of Hannoverian Army surgeons 1815" (Zeitschr. f. Hkde. NR. 129. S. 24/25.).
5) This is relevant to the rank list of officers of the Hanoverian Army by Sichart, as at 18. 6. 1815, Lt Col. v Rheden of Bn. Hildesheim and Lt Col. Count Westphalen of Bn. Peine. Majors Ludewieg and Lueder were attached from the KGL, so it is questionable whether they did not continue to wear the Legion's uniform.
So far three different uniforms were well known for the light battalion Bremen Verden and/or field battalion Bremen for the years 1813 15, namely:
a) red with blue facings,
b) red with black facings,
c) green with black facings.
So far it has not been possible to succeed in clarifying which of these uniforms were worn by which sub units of the Bremen Battalion in the campaign of 1815. The information in the Siborne manuscript shows the fact that the red uniform with black facings was worn by most of the battalion. Also the jacket of Dante, assuming the correctness of the allocation “worn at Waterloo” suggests the same interpretation. The dark green rifle clothing was possibly used by the sharpshooters of the battalion.
Fig. 3 is my drawing taken in the Fatherland Museum Celle, showing the jacket worn by sharpshooter officer First Lieutenant Hurtzig of Landwehr Battalion Verden in 1815. A detailed description of this piece of uniform is in Mr. Schirmer’s article "The Landwehr in the context of the Army of the Kingdom of Hanover (1814 1820)” 6 as the illustration shows. The colouring is inferred from this description. Supplementing the following details referred to:
1. The sharpshooter officers of this Landwehr Battalion did not wear, as was usual in the British army including the KGL, wings, but the simple epaulets of the officers of the centre companies.
2. Very unusual for a short infantry officer jacket of English model of this time is the double sided lapels.
Fig. 4 shows the representation of a complete original shako, at present in the military history achives of the Local History Museum in Hanover, that is attributed to the "Landwehr Battalion Osterode 1815".
The headdress is of rough black felt, the outside trimming at the lower edge from black linen tape, the narrow eye shade from black leather, cords and tassels of green cord, the fittings of brass, crown and king's monogram are raised engravings. The outer edge of the teethed cockade is formed with a black leather shield, into which radiating strips are pressed. A device for fitting a plume is not identified.
Any reinforcement for the headdress and screen is missing, so that, notwithstanding the brass plate, this headdress would without difficulties fold up flat.
The frequently made observation is confirmed that soldier's uniform items of this time were made roughly and cheaply in the design.
Remarkable and deviating from most representations of shakos of this English light infantry type is the low height of this example. The measurements are in detail: Height 20 cm, upper diameter 15 cm, lower diameter 18 cm, height of brass plate 13.5 cm, diameter of the cockade 5.9 cm.
6) Zeitschr. f. Hkde. Nr. 153, April/June 1957, S. 43.
Hope this is of interest,
Rod
